The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady

This album is exactly the reason for why i started using this website

#3

I like to think of music as a language.
And jazz is an ultimate form of conversation.

It is not always intended for the outsiders. Just a group of friends (and versatile speakers, too) enjoying each other's company.

Sometimes you can't understand what they're talking about anymore. But if you've been listening from the beginning, you understand how they got there.

One can't deny - it's a beautiful act.

Avant Garde jazz shows up to the party. Uninvited.

JUST KIDDING
I love jazz, and even I find this progressive opus difficult. It's confrontational and intellectual. It doesn't seem like there is a big audience for Mingus' oddball vision, even in the post-bop era, a time when Jazz was pretty popular, with a lot of mainstream acceptance. Mingus puishes the limits. I always thought his stuff was pretty academic.

constant motion

Pretty good! There were a couple of short, discordant passages I didn't much care for, but otherwise, quite enjoyable. I especially liked to classical guitar segments.

I also like small recording "errors" that are left in, such as someone yelling "Godamnit!" on this album

⭐⭐⭐

I often struggle to write about jazz albums, particularly ones as complex as this, as they are by and large above my station. For a brief summary I'll just say that I thought this was excellent and I'll absolutely be coming back for more.

This is far more than your typical jazz album, and something which consistently demands your attention through its fusion of multiple flavourings from across the musical hemisphere, alongside its dynamic pacing, thorough unpredictability and immersive, wide-ranging production. Despite all of that, though, it still manages to feel like one piece cycling through several movements. Absolutely one I'd purchase.

WOAH. Best Jazz album ever?! You never know where it’s going to go next but everywhere it does makes total sense.

I'm not very far in to this project yet, but I already know Jazz is not my thing, unfortunately. This was fine to listen to in the background; just doesn't do anything for me...

A beautiful album. I love the times when the melody takes centre stage.

Would be a 0, but it will have to be a 1. I just cannot get on board with this type of music - not that i think its bad, I just instantly stop listening

Too discordant for my ears.

Well this one sounds interesting. It's a jazz concept album showcasing the composition of one of jazz's great band leaders... And one of its most violent. He had a notorious temper that resulted in him punching a trombonist in the face once(according to Wikipedia). As for the actual album, it's amazingly dynamic free jazz. While most jazz just settles for being pleasant background music, this album is an absolute rollercoaster of a listen. It has intricate parts followed by loud blasts of sax noise and even a part that sounded like distorted speech coming from the saxophone. This is properly great jazz, forgoing cocktail-bar pleasantry for legitimate artistic passion and playing with so much fire it makes some metal bands look like wimpy indie folk bands. Here, the Angry Man of Jazz records a stunningly uncompromising free jazz record that is one of the best things I've heard in a while.

This album is ranked #6 of 8 albums for 1963. Other 1963 albums rated by me:
Live at the Harlem Square Club(1/8)-5
The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan(3/8)-4
James Brown Live at the Apollo(4/8)-4
A Christmas Gift for You from Phil Spector(7/8)-2

God dang Mingus. Dit is zo'n vette plaat. Avontuurlijk en gelaagd. Er kan zomaar een klassiek Spaans gitaartje ingezet worden, of een plotse, onverwachte tempowisseling. Track C is schitterend vooral, het eind van Mode D in unhinged.

Again, I don’t really like jazz, or instrumental music, again I have been blown away by an absolutely incredible piece of art, incorporating big band themes and Spanish notes This felt very classical based with the instruments taking a life of their own. Its transcendent.

Another jazz album today that I really rather liked. Went surprisingly quickly (because I'm concerned when there's only a few tracks that it'll feel like it's dragging) and it had a real sense of pacing and drama. Loved the drama in this.

Ahh, this is really good. I'm almost taken aback. Like, I don't really know jazz at all, but this album feels really ahead of its time. I'm listening to it and being reminded of all the modern experimental and post-rock bands I adore. There has to be some sort of influence here, damn. Really fresh and exciting to listen to. Maybe it turns out I like jazz?

Мені завжди здавалось що елітарність джаза та "складність" цієї музики дуже переоцінена. Тим більше якщо мова йде про класичний джаз - він ніколи не був чимось елітарним і не задумувався таким, це просто музика певної форми й певних сенсів, зовсім не обов'язково бути музичним критиком чи ще кимось, щоб її любити.

Але це я до чого - я дуже давно почав цікавитись джазом, напевно десь з 2007го року, коли я почав більш-менш досліджувати цей стиль. Але по-справжньому я полюбив жанр після того, як послухав Sketches Of Spain Майлза Девіса та Гіла Еванса, було в цій музиці щось несхоже на стандартний хардбоп.

Але це я до чого [2] - загаданий альбом Мінгуса мені видається дуже нестандартним, навіть якщо брати усю безліч варіацій джазової музики, яка існувала у 50-60 роках. Це один з моїх улюблених альбомів у жанрі і на мою думку він може сподобатись тим, хто не любить джазєц або не цікавиться їм зовсім. Чого я власне згадав скетчес оф спейн - тут теж присутня оця південна атмосфера, яку важко якось сформулювати словами, але вона дуже органічно вплітається в основну канву, яку вигадав Мінгус (нагадаю - він переважно басист, але й композитор всього альбому). Вважається що це типу балет, але навіть якби ми того не знали, "візуальність" Black Saint дуже сильна, це музика яка буквально створює образи. Дуже фактурна і характерна. Можна тут ще додати цілий абзац про те якою цікавою особистістю був сам Мінгус, що нотатки до альбому писав його психотерапевт і так далі, але це не так важливо.

Головне тут, це власне сама музика - суміш джазу, блюзу, якогось кабаре, "співучих" духових і навіть іспанської гітари. Треба ще сказати що структура композицій сильно відрізняється від класичного бібопу чи хардбопу. Так, у ті часи коли вже був фріджаз, когось здивувати складними структурами було неважко, втім саме таких альбомів дуже мало. Тим більше умовно "концептуальних". Мені на пам'ять приходить, наприклад Out Of The Cool того таки Гіла Еванса, але хоча там теж оркестр і теж музика досить кінематографічна, такого ефекту як Black Saint вона не викликає. І навіть якщо просто відкинути все це, тут купа топових мелодій, якщо взяти хоча б основні, навколо яких розвиваються всі 4 композиції - це прям топ і запам'ятовуються вони легко.

Резюмуючи - я фанбой Мінгуса, а цього альбому тим більше.

Hard to explain why I love it so much. This album, Charlie Haden’s Liberation Music Orchestra, Eddie Gale’s Ghetto Music, Archie Shepp’s albums. I love that mix of chaos and beauty. It’s like pure emotion expressed musically. More please.

So many things with a saxophone that I didn’t know you could do! I think I heard the trumpet talk at one point.

The challenge for me with jazz is that it’s often improvised, which should make it exciting listening to what could come. Maybe it’s because certain sections repeat themselves so it doesn’t come off as fresh. Or that there are no lyrics so you have to really focus on multiple melodies instead of concentrating on one.

However, it’s really cool hearing Charles Mingus and his band play with such skill that they can freely bounce off each other’s instruments. This album is ultimately refreshing when I need to hear form than structure in my music listening (3-3.5).

‘The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady’ is widely regarded as the masterpiece of Charles Mingus. It was released in 1963, which was perhaps Mingus's most creative year. During this period, he also recorded and released ‘Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus’ and ‘Mingus Plays Piano’. Musically, it is classified as 'Third Stream', a fusion of jazz and classical music. Even more than 60 years after its release, the album still feels avant-garde. There are hardly any successors to the album, not even from Mingus himself. Whilst he continued to work on a fusion of jazz and classical music, he never returned to this particular musical language. Free improvisations (or is it composed improvisations?) alternate with chamber music-style moments and big band sequences. With this album, Mingus set himself apart from his mentors, Dizzy Gillespie and Duke Ellington, whilst also creating a sound that was entirely different to that of John Coltrane or Miles Davis, for example. As unique as Mingus is, and as unique as this album is, I find it difficult to fully appreciate it. I like individual sequences, but the free-jazz passages leave me somewhat at a loss. There's simply too much happening at once for me to take it all in. Ultimately, it's perhaps another one of those great classics that everyone raves about but very few can truly understand or appreciate. It's a milestone, but like The Brothers Karamazov, it's a classic that I don't get much out of.